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Hrdayananda: Should devotees be formally designated in a particular occupation?

Srila Prabhupada: Eh? No. Devotees are devotees. Actually devotees are above this brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra. But for management of material things, we have to divide. Just like in the body there are divisions. There are... Krsna. Krsna was acting as a ksatriya. In His boyhood, He was acting like a vaisya. But Krsna is neither ksatriya nor, nor brahmana. This is the example. He was a cowherd boy. That is business of vaisya. And when He was fighting in the battlefield, He was a ksatriya. He was marrying as a ksatriya. So although He was acting sometimes as ksatriya, sometimes as vaisya, but He's neither of these. So devotee is like that. He may act in any position, but He is above all the material conception of life.

- Morning Walk  Vrindaban, March 12, 1974

Prabhupada: No, no. Initiation should go on. Even... You do not understand what I have said, that that is for Vaisnava. A Vaisnava and Visnu... Just like Krsna is Visnu, He's not human being, but He was acting like human being, similarly, Vaisnava is transcendental. But for proper management of the material world, one should be acting like brahmana, one should be acting like ksatriya. That is required. Just like actually we are doing so. Some of you are preaching, and some of you are cleansing the temple. It does not mean that a sannyasi who is preaching, he is better than that man who is cleansing. Their position as Vaisnava is the same. But for the management, one is cleansing, one is seeing the construction, one is going to preach, like that. That should be there. It is not that "Because I have taken sannyasa, therefore I cannot any more do anything." If need be, he has to act as ksatriya. Or a sudra. It doesn't matter.

- Morning Walk  Vrindaban, March 12, 1974

On Varnashram

Srila Prabhupada: “That  is  natural. Just like in  the  school  college somebody is being trained up as a scientist, somebody is  trained up as an engineer, as medical man, as a lawyer. According to  the tendency.  Practical psychology of the student. He  advised  that "You take this line." Similarly these four divisions of the society, it is very scientific. So by the instruction of the guru when he's in the gurukula he will be specified a particular type of duty and he does it faithfully, sva karmana. The real purpose is Krsna consciousness and according to his guna and karma he's engaged in a particular occupational duty.  Nothing  is  bad provided it  is  meant for Krsna's satisfaction.  Atah  pumbhir dvija-sresthah varnasrama-vibhagasah.  The varnasrama-vibhagah must  be  there.  But what is the aim of  varnasrama?  Simply by becoming a brahmana he's successful?  No.  Nobody  can  become successful unless he satisfies Krsna. That is real success.” (Srimad Bhagavatam lecture, September 29, 1976)

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Gardening or growing food is not a function exclusive to the vaisyas.   If a person has an acre and a cow, and is meeting his or her primary necessities by utilizing them, and teaches others how to do this, is he a brahmana or a vaisya?

If his primary activity in relationship to others is teaching them, then he should be considered a brahmana, depending also on his personal qualities. If his primary activity in relationship to others is supplying food or bartering with them, then he should be considered a vaisya, again depending on his personal qualities. The brahmana’s secondary activity may be growing food, and the vaisya’s secondary activity may be teaching some others how to grow.

Since the first requirement for establishing a community outside of modern society is the natural production of food, a community actually needs brahmanas, not vaisyas. Someone has to teach the others how to do this. And how did Srila Prabhupada say to teach? By example.

Therefore it is pointless to get hung up on the names, the roles, and the different varnas and ashrams. Varna and ashram are material, are temporary, and are based on the body and mind. But as a social structure it is superior, being designed by Krsna, and this societal structure can help us to advance spiritually.

Satsvarupa: So if all the land belongs to God, then who decides who will distribute it to the people?
Prabhupada: You don't distribute. You live only, till the ground and take your food. Where is the question of distribution? Whatever you can till, you take so much land. God has enough land. Why do you possess more? One acre of land is sufficient for producing your food. Why do you take more?
(Morning Walk, Mayapur, April 1, 1975)

Srila Prabhupada repeatedly gave the example of an acre and a cow. He was not referring exclusively to vaisyas, but to a general principle.  Srila Prabhupada never said that this was only "for the vaisyas" - the principle is that everyone should accept only what they need. It is not that one acre or one cow is all that is necessary, for example it requires more than an acre of land to maintain one cow. Proper stewardship of the land and cows, establishing brahminical culture, and the endeavor to please Krsna are the foundation of real society.

The vaisya may be more expert and knowledgeable in particular details of certain types of crops, and the brahmana may be more knowledgeable in the methods of teaching. Both may be engaged in growing foodstuffs, in teaching others, and in worshiping the deity. Each one will focus more on his or her particular area of expertise, but rarely will this be to the exclusion of everything else.

A person is not a brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, or even a sudra except by qualification and work. Such individual qualification and work is often difficult to determine until some semblance of the full social structure exists.  Today, for example, many ISKCON participants who are considered “brahmanas” accept jobs in society as “sudras.” Even if one lives very simply it is quite difficult for a householder brahmana to survive economically in modern society without accepting another occupation, even though a brahmana is not supposed to accept the occupation of a sudra.

A common misconception about the varnashram system is that a person is in a particular varna for his or her entire life. But the eventual outcome of that idea is the caste system itself.   The real system is "by qualification and by activity" as opposed to “by birth” (guna and karma, not janma.) Therefore, regardless of one's previous position, if one displays the appropriate qualities, and takes up the appropriate activities, one has successfully changed varnas . To deny someone the opportunity to change their varna over time is therefore opposed to the varnashram system. Yes, people can learn, and yes, people can change. People can also become purified, and this is our purpose. Srila Prabhupada created some brahmanas (and Vaishnavas) out of people who were less than sudras. People will naturally be attracted to particular types of work, and have certain natural qualifications, but even these can change over time. 

Children should be trained in a societal role that is suited to the psychological nature they are exhibiting at that time, but it does not mean that this will never change in the future. Therefore children should all be first trained to serve nicely, which is what every good teacher and parent tries to teach. They should then be taught the basics of growing food - another skill that every single person should have. They should then also be taught the basics of the ksatriya and then the brahmana varnas - except that along the way some children will "drop out" - they simply will have no interest or lack the capacity to learn such subjects in childhood. At that point they are further trained in whatever level they achieved. 

In other words, even a child deemed as a ksatriya or a brahmana is first always taught how to serve - as is everyone. 

Establishing varnashram cannot be done by saying “You are a brahmana" and "You are a vaisya.” In fact, we often see a tendency to say “I am a brahmana and you are a sudra.” No one can be forced to follow a particular type of occupation. It is all a matter of one’s nature, one’s desire, one’s becoming qualified, and one’s doing the work, in relationship to the rest of society.

Srila Prabhupada said that you can live without your legs or arms, but if you lost your head you would immediately die.  In modern society the greatest need is for brahmanas to guide society, because it is currently headless and nearly dead spiritually.

However, if you lost your stomach, it is highly questionable whether you would live. If you consider the vaisyas to be like the entire torso, then yes, you would die just as quickly as if you lost your head.

Continued social development amongst a group of people requires a focus on whatever part is weakest within that particular group.  In the case of starting self-sufficient agrarian communities, such a group certainly needs vaisyas. Who determines the particular need at any point in time, and who will find people to fill that need, and train them? It comes back to the brahmanas. Yet once a community is established, all the roles are equally important and vital otherwise the social body is either blind (no brahmanas), helpless (no ksatriyas), hungry (no vaisyas), or crippled (no sudras).

It may appear that we are looking for vaisyas, but factually we are looking for devotees who are willing to take on any role to establish what Srila Prabhupada said was so important for us and for the whole world. These are the dedicated followers of Srila Prabhupada that we are seeking. We are not looking for vaisyas.

This does not mean a few people plowing the fields for everyone else to sit back and eat nicely. It means everyone is involved in helping the community toward self-sufficiency.  Therefore the first and foremost requirement of anyone in establishing a community is that you have your land alongside your neighbor’s land, now cooperate together in your village to produce everything you need however much you are able. Help others to provide their necessities, serve one another as Vaishnavas. Learn from each other, help each other, learn from other villages in the community, share with them, specialize in what you are good at, build your houses, teach your children, and so forth. Try to live simply and think highly - and most importantly chant Hare Krsna and be happy!

It is a completely cooperative effort and this is the most important personal qualification.  We want pioneers cooperating together, devotees willing to do what it takes - understanding that the establishment of sustainable communities is a long-term project. One of the first goals of any community is to become established on the land by building homes and growing some crops. At different times in its growth a community may find a need for different roles, different information, or different sets of resources. Such needs will be met from within that community, regardless of any personal conception of varna. A particular amount of land can only support a particular number of people, so unless a particular community finds adjacent land after the original purchase, or has money to purchase a lot of excess land, whatever roles are needed from time to time will have to be filled by those living in the community. As Srila Prabhupada said, "Do the needful."

Each community will require teachers for the children from the very beginning.  As soon as any families move in to a community we will need teachers. The household land owned by any such teachers must still be used productively, and this can be done by the teacher in his or her spare time, or by the teachers spouse, by others residing in the same house, by others in the village or community in exchange for having their children taught, or a combination of all these. This subject is covered further in other pages on our site.

Next - On Varnashram (continued)